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Thread: Things like this is why I take up for Muslims here...

  1. #11
    Inactive Member R13's Avatar
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    Re: Things like this is why I take up for Muslims here...

    Not nearly as much, it's not my scapegoat, it's facts. I welcome you to try to find some other cause that has caused more, as much or even near to what religion has caused in this world.

  2. #12
    Inactive Member cosmo99's Avatar
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    Re: Things like this is why I take up for Muslims here...

    The Causes of Terrorism
    Two Causes of Terrorism
    From Amy Zalman, Ph.D.,
    All terrorist acts are motivated by two things:

    * Social and political injustice: People choose terrorism when they are trying to right what they perceive to be a social or political or historical wrong?when they have been stripped of their land or rights, or denied these.
    * The belief that violence or its threat will be effective, and usher in change. Another way of saying this is: the belief that violent means justify the ends. Many terrorists in history said sincerely that they chose violence after long deliberation, because they felt they had no choice.

    This explanation of the causes of terrorism may be difficult to swallow. It sounds too simple, or too theoretical. However, if you look at any group that is widely understood as a terrorist group, you will find these two elements are basic to their story.

    * Zionists who bombed British targets in 1930s mandate Palestine felt they must do so in order to create a Jewish state.
    * The IRA (Irish Republican Army) bombed English targets in the 1980s to make the point that they felt their land was colonized by British imperialists.
    * In the 1960s and 1970s, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine felt that armed attacks in Israel were a justifiable response to the usurpation of their land.
    * Osama bin Laden's declaration of war on American interests in the 1990s stemmed from his belief that U.S. troops stationed in Saudi Arabia represented an abomination to the kind of Islamic state he believed should exist in the Arabian peninsula.
    * Uighur separatists in China today feel that Chinese religious repression (the Uighur Chinese are Muslims) justifies their terrorist tactics.
    * In some cases, people choose terrorist tactics based on a cause whose righteousness they believe in to the exclusion of nearly all else. Abortion clinic bombers in the 1990s and groups such as the Animal Liberation Front believe zealously in their causes.

    People who choose terrorist tactics are also persuaded that violence, or the threat of violence, is effective.

    There is some question about who actually 'chooses' terrorism, and it may be unfair to think of young recruits, such as some suicide bombers today, who are seduced by cult-like methods of indoctrination as completely culpable for their choices.
    Asking a Better Question: What Conditions Are Favorable for Terrorism

    In fact, the question, "what causes terrorism?" is not quite the right question to be asking, because we will never be able to answer it. We cannot say that the presence of one factor provokes terrorism in the same way that we can say with scientific certainty that certain toxins cause diseases.

    If you listen closely to the explanations that are usually given as answers to the question, "What is terrorism?" you will find that they actually answer the question: "What are the conditions in which terrorism is most likely to take place?" Sometimes these conditions have to do with the people who become terrorists (they are described as having certain psychological traits, like 'narcissistic rage') and some conditions have to do with the circumstances they live in (a poor society; a formerly colonized society, for example).

    Although many people today believe that that religious fanaticism "causes" terrorism, it isn't true. It may be true that religious fanaticism creates conditions that are favorable for terrorism. But we know that religious zealotry does not 'cause' terrorism because there are many religious fanatics who do not choose terrorism or any form of violence. So there must also be other conditions that in combination provoke some people to see terrorism as an effective way of creating change in their world.

    There are two more reasons why asking, "What conditions create a favorable climate for terrorism?" is better than asking about causes The first is, it makes it easy to remember that there are always at least several conditions. Terrorism is a complex phenomenon; it is a specific kind of political violence committed by people who do not have legitimate army at their disposal. A second reason that has been useful for me, as I ask questions about terrorism, is that thinking in terms of 'conditions' helps me remember that people have a choice about whether to use violence.

    There is nothing inside any person nor in their circumstances that sends them?like a monopoly piece headed directly to "Go"?directly to terrorism. Instead, there are certain conditions, some of which make violence against civilians seem like a reasonable, and even necessary option. Despite this, and some of the deeply unforgivable circumstances that foster terrorism, people always have the free will to seek another course of action.


    Causes of Terrorism -- The Two Causes of Terrorism
    Terrorism - Causes of Modern Terrorism
    New Statesman - Does religion cause terrorism?

    I know that Christian extremists have caused acts of violence just as Islamic extremist have. If Islamic extremist have caused violence that doesn't mean the whole religion of Islam is horrible and believes the same as the extremists, does it? Shouldn't the same apply to Christians?

  3. #13
    Inactive Member R13's Avatar
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    Re: Things like this is why I take up for Muslims here...

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmo99 View Post
    I know that Christian extremists have caused acts of violence just as Islamic extremist have. If Islamic extremist have caused violence that doesn't mean the whole religion of Islam is horrible and believes the same as the extremists, does it? Shouldn't the same apply to Christians?

    I don't think you realize I'm not just talking about terrorism, I'm talking about wars, terrorism, corruption, death and destruction of countless lives. I'm not even talking about today's extremist really, I'm talking about basic concepts of most religions since they were ever invented. Religion is man-made, whether people are accepting to that of not it's undeniable and even though I think God is man-made, I'm just talking about religion. They have been created so people can control others, set their own rules, that's why most religions are the same...as in the basics were borrowed from ones before it, tweaked a bit and passed around, don't you find it a little funny that you can find the biography of jesus passed around many centuries before he was actually here? Or stories like the great flood too? There all too similar, if people weren't so closed minded and in denial, they would see that too and question.

    While most religions claim to "bring everyone together" and all that jazz, it promotes division and has always done that, which has caused all of this destruction for thousands of years. You can't claim unity, while claiming that everyone else who doesn't follow it is wrong and evil(along those lines) and expect that not to cause problems.

  4. #14
    Inactive Member cosmo99's Avatar
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    Re: Things like this is why I take up for Muslims here...

    OK I AM SO SORRY THAT I HAVE EVER REPLIED OR ANSWERED ANY OF YOUR POSTS. I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER SINCE YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY SO MUCH MORE BRILLIANT THAN THE REST OF US PEONS. IF YOU WANT SOMEONE TO SAY IT AND IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER I WILL, EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS THE TRUTH. YOU ARE SO RIGHT IT IS WRONG! EVERYONE SHOULD LISTEN TO YOUR WORDS OF WISDOM. (just in case please note the sarcasm)

  5. #15
    Inactive Member R13's Avatar
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    Re: Things like this is why I take up for Muslims here...

    Lol So you had no rebuttal, huh?

  6. #16
    Inactive Member cosmo99's Avatar
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    Re: Things like this is why I take up for Muslims here...

    How can I have a rebuttal when you are right? There is NOTHING anyone can say to you that you are going to believe and I can about guarantee that if God himself came to your home and showed you proof that you would dispute it. You make it difficult to debate anything because no matter what you are always right and the other person is always wrong no matter what the proof. You never listen to the other side. I could say fish swim in the water and you would debate it and it would end up being a 10 page long thread.

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    Inactive Member R13's Avatar
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    Re: Things like this is why I take up for Muslims here...

    Nope, I just don't get into debates anywhere when I don't know what I'm talking about, have some kind of knowledge about and have researched it a bit - anyone is going to be right when they do that. I don't act like I know everything, not close to it, I just don't put myself in situations that much where I'm arguing something wrong. So no, it's not the "you'll argue anything, wrong or not, no one can argue with you". I just don't make comments/statements or post something I can't back up. That seems to be the consensus by some on here of that's how I do things, but it couldn't be further from the truth. As I've said, facts shut anyone up, yet nothing...

  8. #18
    Inactive Member cosmo99's Avatar
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    Re: Things like this is why I take up for Muslims here...

    Just so you know there are plenty of things I don't comment on because I may not know the topic. I never profess to be the smartest and most knowledgeable about most topics on here, the topic was religion related to terrorism. I researched it and came up with my post. I will have you know I don't just pull my comments out of my ass just to be typing on here and see my name on a screen. You believe what you will about God and I believe what I will and then see who comes out right at the end.

  9. #19
    Inactive Member R13's Avatar
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    Re: Things like this is why I take up for Muslims here...

    And no one ever said you didn't do any of those things, no one said that about anyone, just don't say I'm acting like I'm always right when you don't post anything to prove me wrong. Most of what I say on here, can be backed up, I used to spout off when I first got on here and few years ago and looked like a dumbass...of course some still act like I don't know what I'm talking about, but can never post proof as to why that is. I explain everything, and can post facts to back up what I've said here, yet deflected with your sarcastic comment. Oh well. This wasn't even really about "God", it was about religion is very different. But sure we can, even though this wasn't even about that, just gets a little old(not saying this is just you) when the believers on here get cornered, they use that little argument you did.

    And btw, I do listen to the other side, doesn't mean the other side is right. Don't forget I was on the other side the most of my life, was very into it and knowledgeable about a lot of "that side", so it's not like I have always been an agnostic and never considered/believed anything else.

  10. #20
    Inactive Member cosmo99's Avatar
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    Re: Things like this is why I take up for Muslims here...

    Quote Originally Posted by R13 View Post
    And no one ever said you didn't do any of those things, no one said that about anyone, just don't say I'm acting like I'm always right when you don't post anything to prove me wrong.
    You may not have said that very thing but you are always great at implying things and then using a comment like the one above when someone calls you out on it. I could post a million things disputing what you post but you would just dispute those also. I used to be a lot like you, get cocky on the fact that I THOUGHT that I was always right, knew everything, so well rounded, up to date on all the politics and such, that goes away when you find out that a great deal of people know a lot more than you ever thought you did. Those same people bring you down a notch or two. You may not have met them yet but sometime in your life you will.

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